Really enjoyed the analysis Matt (and the Scorecard concept overall).
Do you have an image of Djokovic/Schwartzmann/other strong returners’ return depth per wing to compare to Tsitsipas’ in the article? I’m very interested in seeing how elite returners perform per wing
Sorry just saw this. Yeah Djokovic is in the mid-low 20%'s (compared to Tsitsipas' mid-30%'s on backhands) for the short returns on every possible serve (wide AD, mid AD, T AD, T deuce, mid deuce, wide deuce) and is at just 19% short returns when returning wide deuce serves. Novak is extremely balanced in this regard and not only does he find significantly more return depth in general than Tsitsipas, it's also hard to find a 'weaker' wing at all.
No worries and thanks for the reply Matt! Fascinating and impressive stuff
Do you have a pointer to the dataset you're using here, if it's public? It would be interesting to look at this as I've never poked deeper into returning stats before
Seeing the data on stuff like this is phenomenal, thanks. I've long felt there is a "crab walk" trend in modern tennis, where running with one leg crossing in front of the other is a second choice to "sliding" sideways for an open-stance groundstroke. IMO it works fine as long as you only need to cover 4' or 5' inside both sidelines, but for more than that (e.g., defensive backhands) it's less efficient. I also wonder about the more modern slice backhand, with its follow through be less straight out behind the ball's travel (à la Rosewall) and more down and sideways with the elbow pulling out. It certainly works (see: Federer) but might it set a less effective foundation for chipped returns?
It's an interesting question. I don't think Tsitsipas' prep or slice swing follows any conventional school of slice technique. Fed's quick-reaction, extremely strong arm, blocks of big serves are brilliant, as are his slices on the run, but Tsitsipas' blocked returns probably hold more promise than his slices on the run purely because they usually need less of a swing (and little-no footwork) and more of a strong wrist and forearm to merely block the ball back in play, which should be less of a technical issue for him (although his racquet face sometimes ends up in an odd place at the highest point of its prep). As for whether the older or newer slice techniques are easier to translate from regular slices to blocked returns I think you're probably right that the simpler construction of Rosewall et al's slice would translate well to reactive returns, but with enough practice there's no reason a modern, elite single hander can't develop a whole spectrum of slightly different one handed shots to suit all needs (Fed, Stan and Grigor all have), be it large swinging slices to reactive, punched blocks.
This is just great. I'll really look forward to your analyses of other players in weeks ahead!
Really enjoyed the analysis Matt (and the Scorecard concept overall).
Do you have an image of Djokovic/Schwartzmann/other strong returners’ return depth per wing to compare to Tsitsipas’ in the article? I’m very interested in seeing how elite returners perform per wing
Sorry just saw this. Yeah Djokovic is in the mid-low 20%'s (compared to Tsitsipas' mid-30%'s on backhands) for the short returns on every possible serve (wide AD, mid AD, T AD, T deuce, mid deuce, wide deuce) and is at just 19% short returns when returning wide deuce serves. Novak is extremely balanced in this regard and not only does he find significantly more return depth in general than Tsitsipas, it's also hard to find a 'weaker' wing at all.
No worries and thanks for the reply Matt! Fascinating and impressive stuff
Do you have a pointer to the dataset you're using here, if it's public? It would be interesting to look at this as I've never poked deeper into returning stats before
Apologies again, I somehow missed this reply as well! I'm using a mix of a tennis analytics firm I work with to get some of the less public facing data sets, along with the public serve and return tracker here (https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/player-tendencies?statType=Return&year=0&player=F324&pname=Roger%20Federer&score=deucecourt&serve=1&surface=all&opponent=all&oname=All%20Players&oppPlays=all) which covers return depth albeit with smaller samples and requiring more laborious data collection.
Seeing the data on stuff like this is phenomenal, thanks. I've long felt there is a "crab walk" trend in modern tennis, where running with one leg crossing in front of the other is a second choice to "sliding" sideways for an open-stance groundstroke. IMO it works fine as long as you only need to cover 4' or 5' inside both sidelines, but for more than that (e.g., defensive backhands) it's less efficient. I also wonder about the more modern slice backhand, with its follow through be less straight out behind the ball's travel (à la Rosewall) and more down and sideways with the elbow pulling out. It certainly works (see: Federer) but might it set a less effective foundation for chipped returns?
It's an interesting question. I don't think Tsitsipas' prep or slice swing follows any conventional school of slice technique. Fed's quick-reaction, extremely strong arm, blocks of big serves are brilliant, as are his slices on the run, but Tsitsipas' blocked returns probably hold more promise than his slices on the run purely because they usually need less of a swing (and little-no footwork) and more of a strong wrist and forearm to merely block the ball back in play, which should be less of a technical issue for him (although his racquet face sometimes ends up in an odd place at the highest point of its prep). As for whether the older or newer slice techniques are easier to translate from regular slices to blocked returns I think you're probably right that the simpler construction of Rosewall et al's slice would translate well to reactive returns, but with enough practice there's no reason a modern, elite single hander can't develop a whole spectrum of slightly different one handed shots to suit all needs (Fed, Stan and Grigor all have), be it large swinging slices to reactive, punched blocks.