Medvedev's brilliant play and Opelka's wit make it harder for me to maintain my shrill opposition to the heightification of men's tennis. But maintain it I do. I think it is a danger for the sport. Perhaps there are enough Medvedev's ato keep the servebots at bay and keep the sport from suffering a fatal deskilling, but it's foolish to assume it will work out that way. We almost got an Isner-Opelka master's 1000 final and we will likely see a grand slam final of similar ilk in the future. The Anderson-Isner Wimbledon final was a warning that has been ignored. Well-run sports, like the NFL, adjust their rules to maintain the quality of the sport's play. Tennis should make appropriate rule changes. I'm open to different options. My radical solution is to move back the service line for every inch a player exceeds, say, six foot two inches. I'll leave it to Jeff Sackman to determine the exact amount needed to even things out.
This is essentially Novak too altho less noticed because not as tall. Also, is meta yr fav word and what does it actually mean here? Character? Type? ;))
Sort of but I think he's too 'normal' height wise at 6ft 2, i.e he should be able to move well given recent history at least. But agree that Djokovic's all time great return performance while keeping pace with serve improvements over last decade has served as a good example for much of the above. RE 'meta', yeah I actually keep forgetting this is very much a niche term, usually used in tech or gaming. There are two definitions, but the easiest one to remember is 'most effective tactic available'. But really in this context it's just a particular playstyle or strategy which is being used to win and can be separated from others. I'll try and use fewer esoteric terms in future!
How great would it have been to see Opelka, he of the monster serve, throw in a Bublik underhand? Silly? Maybe, but at some point I think you have to not let the other player do what they want when it stymies you again and again.
I doubt the data exists, but it would be interesting to see all the serve/return data you've shared aligned with the change in average square footage of space outside of the ATP tour's courts. (Less so on the WTA side, but maybe even then.) Some time ago I came across this youtube of Becker/Edberg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2qfGlf5g94) and was reminded of what was normal (sic) when players moved forwards relentlessly. Today's pros simply couldn't manage with the lines judges so close (Rafa would be standing behind them) and so little room left and right to chase wide balls. I'm not saying better, or worse, but clearly different. (Could not post a screenshot, but the relative tiny-ness of the playing area is obvious right off the bat in the vid.)
Thanks Skip. It's funny I actually think underarms would be less successful than most seem to on average (especially given the player has to weigh up trading in the effectiveness of a normal 1st serve in doing so) because players like Medvedev and others who stand deep are so fast. But I'd still like to see it anyway just to see whether it would work often enough. Bublik was going to be that experiment but he seemed to stop doing them so often for some reason.
RE court size, it's an interesting question. Will have a think about how easy it is to collect court dimensions from different periods.
Thanks for the reply. Unproven, but I suspect a large part of the value of an underhand serve, or drop shot in another context, or a lob, is that it creates uncertainty, and in my mind any uncertainty I plant in my opponent's mind translates to *some* points. Whether that turns out to be enough points, or enough points of significance, is harder to ascertain. (How many unforced errors are actually forced by one player's patterns and the threat they pose, i.e., indirectly forced errors, and therefore never tallied?)
Such an awesome analysis, thank you Mr. Willis!!
Medvedev's brilliant play and Opelka's wit make it harder for me to maintain my shrill opposition to the heightification of men's tennis. But maintain it I do. I think it is a danger for the sport. Perhaps there are enough Medvedev's ato keep the servebots at bay and keep the sport from suffering a fatal deskilling, but it's foolish to assume it will work out that way. We almost got an Isner-Opelka master's 1000 final and we will likely see a grand slam final of similar ilk in the future. The Anderson-Isner Wimbledon final was a warning that has been ignored. Well-run sports, like the NFL, adjust their rules to maintain the quality of the sport's play. Tennis should make appropriate rule changes. I'm open to different options. My radical solution is to move back the service line for every inch a player exceeds, say, six foot two inches. I'll leave it to Jeff Sackman to determine the exact amount needed to even things out.
This is essentially Novak too altho less noticed because not as tall. Also, is meta yr fav word and what does it actually mean here? Character? Type? ;))
Sort of but I think he's too 'normal' height wise at 6ft 2, i.e he should be able to move well given recent history at least. But agree that Djokovic's all time great return performance while keeping pace with serve improvements over last decade has served as a good example for much of the above. RE 'meta', yeah I actually keep forgetting this is very much a niche term, usually used in tech or gaming. There are two definitions, but the easiest one to remember is 'most effective tactic available'. But really in this context it's just a particular playstyle or strategy which is being used to win and can be separated from others. I'll try and use fewer esoteric terms in future!
How great would it have been to see Opelka, he of the monster serve, throw in a Bublik underhand? Silly? Maybe, but at some point I think you have to not let the other player do what they want when it stymies you again and again.
I doubt the data exists, but it would be interesting to see all the serve/return data you've shared aligned with the change in average square footage of space outside of the ATP tour's courts. (Less so on the WTA side, but maybe even then.) Some time ago I came across this youtube of Becker/Edberg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2qfGlf5g94) and was reminded of what was normal (sic) when players moved forwards relentlessly. Today's pros simply couldn't manage with the lines judges so close (Rafa would be standing behind them) and so little room left and right to chase wide balls. I'm not saying better, or worse, but clearly different. (Could not post a screenshot, but the relative tiny-ness of the playing area is obvious right off the bat in the vid.)
Thanks for the post.
Thanks Skip. It's funny I actually think underarms would be less successful than most seem to on average (especially given the player has to weigh up trading in the effectiveness of a normal 1st serve in doing so) because players like Medvedev and others who stand deep are so fast. But I'd still like to see it anyway just to see whether it would work often enough. Bublik was going to be that experiment but he seemed to stop doing them so often for some reason.
RE court size, it's an interesting question. Will have a think about how easy it is to collect court dimensions from different periods.
Thanks for the reply. Unproven, but I suspect a large part of the value of an underhand serve, or drop shot in another context, or a lob, is that it creates uncertainty, and in my mind any uncertainty I plant in my opponent's mind translates to *some* points. Whether that turns out to be enough points, or enough points of significance, is harder to ascertain. (How many unforced errors are actually forced by one player's patterns and the threat they pose, i.e., indirectly forced errors, and therefore never tallied?)